QI’ve heard the only journal experience in law school that has any resume value is Law Review. Is this true? Do firms really care either way or does it just depend on who’s interviewing you?
AFirst off, this conversation is only relevant for those students looking to land jobs at swanky, big city law firms. Everyone else, stop reading now. Because it’s irrelevant and incredibly annoying. But for those of you looking to land prestige jobs, here you go…
The simple truth is: Law Review is the “Harvard” of legal journals. No doubt. It’s the one thing that guarantees a law student multiple interviews and immediate respect. I wish it weren’t so, but it is. Law firms covet students on Law Review. Fact. And for good reason too. First off, it’s not easy to get admitted. Second, once you’re admitted, you have to work your ass off to stay a member. Law firms know this—and love this. It proves that you have a high tolerance for pain and are willing to sacrifice any semblance of a social life in pursuit of a higher calling. Kind of sad, if you think about it, but it’s true.
So what if you don’t “make Law Review?” Should you still join some random, junior varsity journal? Answer: Hell yeah! It might not guarantee you a job at Cravath, but it’s definitely a “significant positive” on your resume. It shows that you’re willing to work harder than the average student, and that you’re probably a better researcher and writer than him, too. So do yourself a favor and stop trying to convince yourself that joining the International Law Journal would be a waste of time—because it wouldn’t. Truth is, it would actually help your chances of landing a good job. By a lot. Especially if you don’t go to a top-ten school. So either make Law Review or join a journal as fast as you can. If you want to get a “fancy” job anyway.
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QI’m working with an asshole senior associate who I think just gave me a shitty review—which I didn’t deserve. I promise. This guy is on all kinds of anti-depressants and other medication. I think he is manic-depressive or something. He sees a shrink three times a week. But he’s very secretive about this. Don’t think the firm knows. Should I bring this up at my review?
AKeep your mouth shut and accept the bad evaluation. Selling out the “asshole senior associate” will make you look like a whiny punk. If he’s as crazy as you suggest, the partners already know this. Trust me. Take it on the chin and move on and try not to work for this person again. And don’t worry about the shitty review. Assuming it’s your only one, you’ll be fine. The firm won’t even blink.
I’m traveling on a cross-country flight with my supervising partner tomorrow, and we’re sitting next to each other on the plane. I already tried to change the seat, but the flight’s booked. I have a few work things I could do on the plane, but they can also wait until later. Truth is, I was totally stoked to watch about ten episodes of The Office. But I can’t with a partner next to me, watching my every move. Do I have to do some stupid, unnecessary work just to keep up appearances (for which I won’t even get extra billables, since we’re already billing for the flight…) or is it OK if I just watch some DVDs, read a magazine, or God forbid, go to sleep?
I feel your pain. No easy answer here. For what it’s worth, here’s what I’d do: After the obligatory early-flight exchange of platitudes, I’d do a little work. Like thirty minutes’ worth, then hit the magazines. I wouldn’t recommend watching DVDs on your laptop, though—don’t really know why, I just wouldn’t. I could see Partner Dude getting annoyed by this—for no legitimate reason, of course, but I could still imagine him being annoyed that you’re actually having fun. Laughing and joy are not typically part of the legal experience. Especially the legal-airplane experience. Sad, but true. For some idiotic reason, business travel is extremely serious to most partners. So instead of watching The Office, read a few magazines. But don’t smile. Or giggle. I’d also stay away from the US Weekly, Star Magazine stuff too. Too easy for Partner Dude to make negative assumptions. Go with Time, Fortune, if you’re feeling daring, Vanity Fair. If you want to impress, bust out the New Yorker.
Have a great trip!
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QJust had my review. I’m a second year associate at a Big New York Firm. Partner told me I was “performing adequately.” Also told me, I need to “think more robustly and apply more common sense and diligence to the task at hand.” Translation please?
AYou will be fired in exactly six months. No doubt. In fact, there’s a 50% chance the letter’s already been written. They’re just laying a record to avoid potential litigation. From this day forward, spend every minute of every day looking for a new job.
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I’m a second year law student looking to get into sports law. Any thoughts?
First off, it’s not really a type of law. Sounds cool, I know. “Sports Law.” In fact, I wanted to get into it too. Until I realized it didn’t really exist. It’s like wanting to get into Santa Claus law. It’s not real. Unfortunately. God doesn’t give with both hands, hombre. But I get where you’re coming from: You like sports and want to find a way to make a living as a lawyer doing something you actually dig. Worthy objective. But sports law isn’t a realistic gig. My advice is: Try to get a job interning for a sports team (e.g., Boston Red Sox) or professional league (e.g., NFL) in their legal department. Or, try to get into sports management or representation. Check out firms like AIG and CAA. You wouldn’t actually be practicing law, but your JD would probably help you get an interview.
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QI’m heading into my 3rd year of law school at a tier two. I go to class part time and work 50+ hours a week, clerking full time for a staff attorney at a Fortune 500 Company. I’m looking forward to practicing when I graduate, but there’s just one problem. My grades suck, I mean they suck big time. I went from being a Phi Beta Kappa in undergrad to being a C+ average law student. Do I have any shot in hell at making some decent coin after school? With work and school at it is, 100 hour weeks is something I’m already used to, so I know I can do the work. I just don’t know if any decent firm will give me a shot. What’s your sardonic take on my situation?
AI will try to be honest, not sardonic. But sometimes, if you’re lucky, they sort of intersect. Anyway. You absolutely have a shot in hell at making decent coin after school. Why not? You’re a hard-working Phi Beta Kappa with a law degree from a good school. Being blunt, the C+ average will most likely keep you out of the elite, major-city law firms. When I say “most likely,” I mean 98.5%. Someone, somewhere might be super-impressed with your undergraduate grades and 50+ hour work weeks while attending law school. But don’t count on it. These firms typically have hard and fast cut-off points relating to grades. If you had a B+ average, you might be in the hunt. Barely.
Having said that, you seem like a perfect candidate for a quality mid-size or small firm. They’ll care a lot more about your practical, real-life work experience—and work ethic—than your GPA. The prestige firms, on the other hand, look for quantifiable measures of academic aptitude and desire. Excellent grades, top-tier universities, Law Review, federal clerkships. Their goal is to teach you how to practice law “the right way.” Their way. Smaller firms don’t have the time or resources to do this, so they’ll actually appreciate your part-time work experience. Bigger firms are (much) less interested in this. In fact, they might even be worried you picked up some bad habits working for that Fortune 500 staff attorney.
As for the money, the simple truth is the starting salaries at big, fancy firms are significantly higher than at mid-size and small firms. Like double. That’s just a fact. The good news is that, after your first job, grades and law school mean a hell of a lot less than client lists and experience. In the real world, law is a business. The more clients you control, the more money they pay your firm, the more leverage you have. If you care about making money, never forget that. An “A” book of business trumps a C+ GPA every day of the week.
I’m in love with this senior associate I’m working with. He’s super-cute, super-smart and super-married. We made out last night. Now what?
Call the New York Times and go live with such earth-shattering news! What do you mean, what do you do? Just chill out and act like an adult. Tell him you made a mistake and it won’t happen again. PS–Get over yourself. You’re not Carrie Bradshaw. Flirting with married guys is lame. Besides, if this dude were single, you’d already be bored. Move on.
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I’m a part-time student at a tier 4 school in Kentucky you’ve never heard of. I don’t have lofty aspirations, but I make really good grades and could probably crack a local large or mid-size firm. I’m going to be totally honest, though—I’m lazy. I don’t want to work 80 or even 60 hours a week. I have enough time pulling 40. But here’s the deal, I like money. I want to make as much as I can. So, the question: After graduation, how do I make the most scratch for doing the least amount of work?
So let me get this straight: You go to a fourth tier school and want to make lots of scratch without working too hard. Okay, I get it. I think. You’re like this really short kid I once knew who got cut from the eighth grade basketball team, yet wanted to play for the Boston Celtics—but didn’t want to practice. The (only) good news here is: At least you’re honest about what you want (money) and what you don’t want (to work hard).
First off, you definitely shouldn’t work at a “real” law firm. You’ll work too hard and won’t make enough “scratch.” So, if you want to be a lawyer, your best bet is to consider plaintiffs’ work. In other words, become an ambulance chaser. They’re more entrepreneurial than most attorneys—and if they’re successful, they make lots of cash. Like millions. Granted, it’s low on the prestige totem pole—but if you’re going to a no-name school in Kentucky, that’s probably not terribly important to you anyway.
If you want to do something nonlegal—which, by the way, would be my advice for someone who wants to make money without working hard—you might want to consider some sort of financial services sales position. Doesn’t even matter what you sell—as long it costs a lot to buy. Your hours will be 9 to 5, and your job will consist of taking clients to dinner, playing golf and yes, visiting the occasional strip club.
But know this, hombre: The easiest way to get rich is to work your ass off. So my real advice is: Either make money a less important goal, or make working hard a more important one. Or marry rich.
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QPartner invited me to play golf at his country club. Problem is I suck. I mean, I’m really bad. Heard the partner is good. Like a 5 handicap or something. Should I play?
AAbsolutely not. Just come clean and tell him you suck and that playing with you would do irreparable damage to your relationship and significantly affect your chances at making partner. Choice B is to tell him your parents are in town and you need to reschedule. Then immediately book a series of lessons at the nearest country club and get to work on your golf swing. Lesson to be learned: Don’t say you play golf unless you actually play golf. Good golfers hate playing with shitty ones. Fact.
My friend is 30, works at Goldman and made three million dollars last year. I almost vomited when I heard this. I’m the same age, smarter and work harder. What am I missing?
Not missing a damn thing. He went into a profession where people make tons of money–and fast. You went into a profession where people don’t. PS–Why are you so sure you’re smarter than he is? I mean, he made three mill last year and you probably made, what, 200k?
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